The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by rousselle »

Hey, there.

I'm not going to butt into this conversation too much since I did not back this particular project and, therefore, don't have a dog in this particular project's proverbial hunt.

However, I do have a stake in how well this community is doing, and I have to say, Holy Crap, Alex, my proverbial hat is off to you for posting such a detailed and thoughtful response to the previous posts. Well done! I continue to appreciate very much your participation in the conversations here, that you don't shrink away from bad news or controversy, and that you don't take an attitude that has sometimes soured other card designers' relationship with the community.

I also want to say that I think the way you have handled the popular demand for this project is as fair and reasonable as can be expected. You have shown similar class in the past, and I'll note that I have benefited from your kindness when I was able to "back" a project after the KS window had closed. Your willingness to try to accommodate as many in the community as you can while still sticking to your originally stated goals for "limitedness" is exemplary.

Something I have noticed these days in the world in general is that no matter the topic, there will always be some who greet it with skepticism or criticism. That is not to say that some people are always negative, but rather, that there will always be negativity from somewhere. (The distinction is important. I'm not criticizing the people who criticized you; rather, I'm saying that if they weren't criticizing you for the choice you made, someone else would have criticized you for making a different choice.)

The larger your success, the more people involved. The more people involved, the more opportunities for someone to criticize. And, let's face it, the more people involved, the harder the decisions you have to make to try to please your backers.

This is all by way of saying that I'm trying to address this point that you made at the end of your recent post:
I thought it would be greeted with optimism but is instead met with pessimism and attacks on character. Makes me reconsider why I do this.
Your decision *was* greeted with optimism. Exceedingly so, in fact, if the numbers of your backers and pledges are any guide, and also if you review the conversation here. But, yes, since more people were involved, there were also more voices in criticism. I'm glad that you hear them, but I hope you take into account proportionality. They are not the majority. I hope you hear the people who are excited and happy about your decisions, too.

Healthy criticism (even if it's expressed inartfully) can actually be a useful guide, but don't let it drown out the voices of support. And, when your critics resort to attacks on character, please take it with a grain of salt, just as you should take with a grain of salt your fans' suggestions that you be nominated for sainthood.

So, TLDR; Thanks for keeping it classy, Alex, and please don't let the critics grind you down.

PS: While I was writing this, sinjin7 just posted a far more eloquent post along the same lines. So, add my voice to that choir. :)
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by Magic Tapp »

Alex - let me throw my two cents in. I would second the thoughts of many here - you should not be discouraged by what was said in this thread. Firstly, throughout your campaigns, you have always been upfront and transparent with your backers (and your answer in this thread is as detailed as they get). Secondly, what you have done and how fast you have reacted to all those posts from people who did not manage to get the gold elixir decks is nothing short of amazing. Thirdly, it is literally impossible to please everyone so just do your thing and come up with these amazing decks that you are becoming known for.

It was one of your decks that made me look closer at starting my own collection and for that I am very grateful.
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by MagikFingerz »

Alex - I wasn't planning on being a backer, due to the premium price, decks being gilded, and having somewhat limited funds. But after reading your reply here (as well as realizing the Midnight Elixir is affordable), I just had to back you. Both for your artwork and your character as a project creator/manager. Keep up the good work, sir!
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by JacksandJokers »

Alex,

I just wanted to say sorry if you felt like my earlier comments were a personal attack on you (Honestly, they weren't).

I know how much work you put into each campaign and for that I will always be grateful.

Like others have said before me, no matter what you do you can't please everyone and i'm fully aware that you have done your utmost to please everyone with this campaign. :D
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by Thedissident001 »

Alex,

I appreciate your detailed response, both to my earlier post and to the posts that others shared as follow ups. I certainly do not regard what I posted as a personal attack - I make a conscious effort to choose my words carefully, and in extension, to ensure those words address what I (rightly or wrongly) perceive to be the facts. Regardless, you have evidently perceived elements of what I posted as being attacks, so I must accept that, and on that basis do apologise for any offence I have caused you. This was not and is not my intent.

One of key things I look for in backing designers, especially on a platform such as Kickstarter where experience has taught me that trust is vital, is that they follow through on what they say they are going to do (and by extension what they say they are not going to do). I’m not blind to the fact that at times, through circumstance or other inputs, things do change - this is the essence of crowd funding after all. I suppose my objection is where the change(s) are obviously discretional in nature (ie there was every option available to you not to change or add new ranges of decks which you had previously already discounted as being something that would be even looked at). I have encountered similar instance with other designers in the past and I’ve raised my objections with them respectfully and transparently just as I have done here. I see myself as your customer and I can’t reconcile why I shouldn’t have a voiced opinion in spite of it going against the “popular” thoughts on the issue. That’s not to say I expect anything to change, I really don’t, but it is still valuable for me knowing that I have exercised my right to state how I feel on certain issues.

All the above not with standing, I do echo the previous sentiments of appreciation from others for you engaging in the discussion here on UC. That metric alone stands you out from many other designers who would have thought they were above engaging in dialog that they didn’t feel was adulating their egos.

In summation I’m happy to agree to disagree here and hope you won’t be discouraged by some objective input, however well or poorly I’ve managed to express it.
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by sms69x »

Thank you so much Alex to came here and explain your point of view on this matter. If my comment was too offensive I apologise, as it was not my intention to offend you, but rather my way to express my disappointment with the way the project went.

Now, the thing that pissed me off more was not the new player's deck, because it was somewhat the logical way to go with the campaign, but rather the magically appearance of the green gilded deck, which was not advertised nor voted. When you presented this deck it already existed, so the logical thought was that you were already planning on lunching it during the campaign, I couldn’t see that in any other way. So in that sense I really thought it was a poor manoeuvre to cash-in some extra money on something you already had.
I understand that your goal was to please all the backers, but if that’s the case I would rather have you produce some extra cabinets so I could complete my set and have my cabinets “magically connect together” as promised. But unfortunately that will not happen.

On another note, just saw your KS update and realise that the decision to go with the new player’s deck was based on 55% yes + 35% maybe. This can be a risk move (and sure it is not used for real marketing a new product), because basically you assumed that the “maybes” would eventually became yes (or at least a significant part of it), but that may not be the case and so you may end up with a lot of unsold decks. I sure hope not.

To finish, I just hope that we didn’t spook you, and you will still came here and voice your opinion on this forum’s matters, it is very valuable.
PS: As you can see, expressing your voice here already bought you a new backer (MagikFingerz).
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by IAmTheChin »

Hey guys,

I just wanted to pop back in here while I had a quick chance and say thanks for understanding. I also want to apologize for my previous rant that was just way too long lol. I usually don't take offense but I think it was just the combination of loss of sleep over the past few days along some other stuff I have going on that seeing this sort of tripped me up a second. In the end I think I'm too big a people pleaser and at times and that inability to commit one way or another can bite me in the butt :/

Anyways I just wanted to say I appreciate the discourse here and hope to see some of you at the convention this year :)
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards (wap)

Unread post by Wizard_of_Os »

So because of some unforeseen issues, I am having to drop my Elixir pledge for this campaign. I am willing to coordinate a drop time if someone here missed out initially and wants to snag it. Let me know if anyone is interested.
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by alric »

IAmTheChin wrote:I introduced a new product without it’s own campaign with 6 days left. There was no introductory momentum window that comes when launching a new product and was literally listed in the “dead zone” of a campaign. The chances of us climbing back into the momentum zone now and reaching a close enough deck count to justify a 2500 deck production to hit the right cost per deck is a huge hail mary.

Anyone looking to milk the momentum of a campaign should always be hitting a 30 day window to reach both first and second swing of the KS algorithm. Doing a 2 week campaign is severely limiting.
Within Alex's masterpiece of a response, I found the above nuggets of information fascinating. I've never run a Kickstarter campaign, so this is a very interesting peek inside the mechanics of optimizing a campaign.

As to the rest of Alex's response, I don't think I've seen a better post from a deck artist that had a beef with United Cardists. It was professional, focused, and to the point. He made clear his frustrations with some of the comments here, but he never took any cheap shots at our forum or traded insult for insult. Alex didn't lash out or take an attitude, nor did he shrink away from bad news or controversy, as Rousselle mentioned in his post. Instead, he logically laid out his response to each of the posts with which he had issue, and was completely transparent with his explanations. You have to have a thick skin when you have your own business, particularly in the card industry. Every deck you put out is like your baby, and no one wants to see their baby criticized. But even with a thick skin, when you feel the sting of a prick that occasionally gets past your thick skin, Alex showed how an appropriate response should look like. I take me hat off to you, sir.
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by Bradius »

I sort of wanted this to be the final cherry on top of the sundae as a nice close to the chapter to start something new.
Just a quick, little Kickstarter. :lol:

Yeah, funded in 2 minutes. With 14 hours to go there are 1,249 backers and over $106,000 in funding. That is one gigantic cherry Alex.

Congrats on another phenomenal campaign.
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by portcullis »

Who do I talk to in order for someone to apprehend Alex for the sadistic murder of my wallet?
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by Magic Tapp »

portcullis wrote:Who do I talk to in order for someone to apprehend Alex for the sadistic murder of my wallet?
On that account, Lotrek should be behind bars for a few lifetimes (and it is not a one-time thing either but rather a continous process) :D
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by portcullis »

Alex would be charged on 4 counts, Lotrek 2
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by Magic Tapp »

portcullis wrote:Alex would be charged on 4 counts, Lotrek 2
Not sure - I count Arabesque, Icons, (to a lesser extent) Sanctus, Venexiana and Grotesk/que series...
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by portcullis »

I don't count his player editions: Arabesque (Au only) & Ambassadors.
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by Magic Tapp »

portcullis wrote:I don't count his player editions: Arabesque (Au only) & Ambassadors.
Why Arabesque AU only? There is also a silver collector's version which went on sale at US$ 100 apiece.
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by Bradius »

Maybe he assaults my wallet. Maybe I fling my money at him as fast as I can before he no longer takes it. The cabinet tiers went really fast (as I expected) and the gold tiers have been long gone. I have seen a few gold tiers open toward the end, but no cabinet tiers. Yes, Lotrek and Alex do command hefty prices, but they provide such amazing rewards. It is fine by me. However, lately it has been VXD that takes the top money grab spot for me as I fling $325 to grab a first issue Stars and Stripes set (still super happy). Well, that is a bit off topic.

With 7 hours to go, it sits at 1,283 backers and $109,054 pledged. That puts it right now at the 13th highest funded playing card campaign in Kickstarter history.

If you got one of the cabinet tiers, I don't suggest dropping it. There may be one or two on eBay after they ship, but you can bet they will not be cheap. Once those go, I don't expect to see many on eBay. At least I haven't seen many Apothecary cabinets on the secondary market.
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by theCapraAegagrus »

Bradius wrote: With 7 hours to go, it sits at 1,283 backers and $109,054 pledged. That puts it right now at the 13th highest funded playing card campaign in Kickstarter history.

If you got one of the cabinet tiers, I don't suggest dropping it. There may be one or two on eBay after they ship, but you can bet they will not be cheap. Once those go, I don't expect to see many on eBay. At least I haven't seen many Apothecary cabinets on the secondary market.
It took me more than a year to find the 4-deck piano box set from the Seasons V2 campaign, and I didn't find it on eBay... The Magna Carta box set is the only display piece of Alex's that I have seen on the aftermarket more than once.
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by hsbc »

I backed for a single Elixir deck and it arrived today! Great tuck, nice gilding - as expected :D
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by portcullis »

Magic Tapp wrote:
portcullis wrote:I don't count his player editions: Arabesque (Au only) & Ambassadors.
Why Arabesque AU only? There is also a silver collector's version which went on sale at US$ 100 apiece.
Sorry to revive a 4-month-old post, but in short: I missed the Ag version cos the sale was at stupid o'clock.
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by Eric Lee »

portcullis wrote:
Magic Tapp wrote:
portcullis wrote:I don't count his player editions: Arabesque (Au only) & Ambassadors.
Why Arabesque AU only? There is also a silver collector's version which went on sale at US$ 100 apiece.
Sorry to revive a 4-month-old post, but in short: I missed the Ag version cos the sale was at stupid o'clock.

I hear you man. Still, I'm glad that this year, Lotrek and JR are starting to have 2 release times in order to make it easier for those of us who live where the sun rises and sets first before the rest of the world. Even T11 and a few others are doing their releases at 12am EST, which sucks for West Europe but great for the rest of us. (my bank account is not happy about that though)
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by portcullis »

Wa-hey! Order shipped. What a great way to start the New Year
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by Bradius »

I received my one Elixir deck as well yesterday. Unfortunately, I don’t have the guts to open it. I will get a few more on another order(s), but they were mixed up with Midnight decks and will have to wait a few more weeks. I see a couple on eBay for $$$$. I hope everyone here that wanted one picked them up during Kickstarter. The tuck is amazing. It is like playing cards going to a fancy dress ball.
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by Bradius »

If you were not able to get an Elixir deck and want one. Will Roya has 11 available for $59.99 ($60), which is a whole lot less than the one for sale on eBay for $135.

https://playingcarddecks.com/collection ... ards-uspcc
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by akicer »

hmm mine is not even shipped yet
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by RichK »

akicer wrote:hmm mine is not even shipped yet
Did you add other decks like the Midnight or Emerald decks? If yes they aren't done and everything you ordered will go out in one package.
Move on, nothing to see here.
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by akicer »

RichK wrote:
akicer wrote:hmm mine is not even shipped yet
Did you add other decks like the Midnight or Emerald decks? If yes they aren't done and everything you ordered will go out in one package.
I did!! Thanks for the notes, now feel good for waiting lol
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by portcullis »

RichK wrote:
akicer wrote:hmm mine is not even shipped yet
Did you add other decks like the Midnight or Emerald decks? If yes they aren't done and everything you ordered will go out in one package.
That'd be why my tracking # hasn't updated in 3 weeks then. #okwithwaitingnow
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by Bradius »

If you had any midnight decks in your order, then the shipment is on hold until it can be combined when the Midnight decks are finished. Not too much longer.


If you missed the Elixir decks on http://www.playingcarddecks.com for $60, they are all gone.

However, one is up on eBay for only $105. Hurry.
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Re: The Elixir Playing Cards by Seasons Playing Cards

Unread post by portcullis »

How're things going on fulfillment @IamTheChin??
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