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hsbc wrote:... and a three-hour video tour of Lotrek's manufacturing facilities

Does this exist? I think I would pay to see this!

montenzi wrote:@Fud, pay a little more to print at USPCC. It will increase your costs by 10%-15% only for 2500 print run. It does not work for 500-1000 decks.

I'm not concerned about 2000 deck orders, I'm worried about the 10-15% increased production cost plus uncontrollable %-of-order production overrun that I have to pay for on a 50k deck print run...

@Fud Thanks for the information, appreciate the transparency. Sounds like the tariff is making it almost pointless to print with WJPC. From my experiences the quality of WJPC does not equate to a Ten dollar deck. For some reason people think it's alright because it's kind of a new norm for a deck to cost a tenner on kickstarter but WJPC isn't ten dollar quality, it seriously isn't twelve dollar quality. I'll back you at and EB because you've always been a stand up guy and like I said before, the design is cute. I'm hoping, cute design or magic deck or poker deck or cadistry deck or whatever you want to call it deck, in the future you'll go back to the more quality playing card manufacturers. Feel is important to us as playing card people and WJPC cards don't feel real good at all, they tend to tear pretty easily too. This is a luxury hobby, we're paying luxury prices for decks and would like at least a quality feel.

Btw, the dog on the spade card is riding in a basket with hearts on it. Cracked me up, great move.

Kermode wrote:

hsbc wrote:... and a three-hour video tour of Lotrek's manufacturing facilities

Does this exist? I think I would pay to see this!

I have no idea - the decks and tucks have to be made somewhere!

Fes wrote:@Fud Thanks for the information, appreciate the transparency. Sounds like the tariff is making it almost pointless to print with WJPC.

It depends on what the goal of the production run is. There is quality, price per deck, ease of logistics (super easy from China), lead time, customer service, payment terms/method and existing relationship to consider. For my experience (which is different than others), every one of these is better with WJPC at the moment with the exception of quality. Quality is the biggest consideration, but when I look at Christmas coming up in just a few months and the better printers being nonresponsive, my hands are tied for this project.

I am planning on trying Cartamundi for future Kickstarters but if it is going to take them weeks to return an email and who knows how long to print and deliver a deck, I just can't afford to have that time tied up in one deck. There is a few months before I need to start planning production for a February Kickstarter; if we can't work smoothly by then, it's looking pretty dire.

Hi Everyone,

Zoo52 Launches Tomorrow!

$10 earlybird decks, DON'T MISS OUT!

In for a cat deck for sure I think the tucks would look without the "52 Zoo Playing Cards" text though - what's on the back, could it go there?

Will EB pricing be based on a limited supply or for a limited time? Just curious and excited for this launch. These will make some great gifts. Good luck, Fud!

hsbc wrote:In for a cat deck for sure I think the tucks would look without the "52 Zoo Playing Cards" text though - what's on the back, could it go there?

Awesooooome!
I tried playing around with the location of the series text, and 3 factors made it stay on the front:
1) It looked worse on the back, and a little better on the sides
2) I think it is good to have the series name on the front; particularly if you plan on making more than 2 decks to a set (wink wink)
3) On market research, the majority of customer preferred the series name on the front in that location. I gotta listen to the data!

BaconWise wrote:Will EB pricing be based on a limited supply or for a limited time? Just curious and excited for this launch. These will make some great gifts. Good luck, Fud!

Limited time - 24 hours only.

Aaaaand we're LIVE!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/el ... watercolor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

$10 shipped for a cat deck is alright with me.

Just my 2¢, I would gladly have pledged a few dollars more for the exact same deck on Cartamundi or USPCC stock. Or maybe gone in for a pair instead. I'm sometimes a stickler for preferred printer but you offer a fair deal and I respect the way you present this.

I'm in for an EB pair.

I don't usually care for dog or cat decks; most of them are a bit too precious. However, the realistic depictions and the semi-transformational design push this way beyond the usual cutesy deck.

I concur with Outsider regarding a better printer. I do not buy WJPC decks. However, the design and extremely reasonable price made me take the risk this time. I believe however that a top quality printer would change this from a gift shop deck to a truly exceptional deck of cards. In all honesty, the superior handling of USPCC or Cartamundi stock could easily make this one of my favorite decks. As it is, I foresee opening them to see the artwork and then putting them in storage an never touching them again. Perhaps I am wrong about WJPC but I am not very optimistic. I would love to see a stretch goal for a better printer. I'm sure there are other potential backers that share my concern and are not pledging for that reason.

I really appreciate the 24hr EB. It really made the difference between pledging for one deck vs two. With far inferior decks going for $18 with shipping, I was very happy to see that this project easily fit my budget. I understand that printing with WJPC is the primary reason for the low price and that I can't have my cake and eat too. Nonetheless, I stand by my statement above.

This is a great design and deserves to be funded. Best of luck.

I was losing my mind for a few minutes that I couldn't find an EB for 2+2 decks, but, the regular "4 of Any" tier is only $41 so I just went with that.

For those who want to keep track...

theCapraAegagrus wrote:Depending on price point, I may back it. I've supported cat decks before with crappy printers.

As good a reason as any to get your hands on a deck! If you haven't yet I'd like to take the chance to introduce you to my cat related/heavily featured deck inspired by Japanese ukiyoe also currently on kickstarter. 12 days left and the campaign helps support abandoned cats and dogs in Japan.

theCapraAegagrus wrote:I'm intrigued...

Lol, the suspense. What does it take to move you further than intrigue?

vasta41 wrote:

theCapraAegagrus wrote:Will these be produced by a good printer? USPCC, EPCC, or Cartamundi?

I'm sure they'll be WJPC

Is WJPC not a printer we are happy about?

STLBluesNut wrote:I think I am nearly the same on pricing, for me the card themselves are maybe worth up to 10 buck generally regardless of the design on them. Unless of course there is foil on the fronts and/or backs.

For me, what pushes a deck above the 10 dollar mark is the tuck. A plain glossy tuck, regardless of design, isn't generally getting much more than 10 bucks out of me. There are exceptions of course. When you start adding, foil, embossing and matte stock is when I will get my wallet out for a more expensive deck.

So, when you put all of these things together like House of the Rising Spade Cartomancer, 30 to 35 dollars becomes more reasonable for me, even though it was only $25. Which is why when I see some of these shit decks out there with no features going for 15 to 20 dollars that took them 2 years to finally recolor a piece of clip art pasted onto a rectangle twice, I throw up in my mouth a little.

Sent from my Galaxy 8 using Tapatalk

Interesting - how do you feel about cards which have all the bells and whistles and heart, and are over your 10 dollar line, but are from unknown/new designers?

Fes wrote:@Fud Thanks for the information, appreciate the transparency. Sounds like the tariff is making it almost pointless to print with WJPC. From my experiences the quality of WJPC does not equate to a Ten dollar deck. For some reason people think it's alright because it's kind of a new norm for a deck to cost a tenner on kickstarter but WJPC isn't ten dollar quality, it seriously isn't twelve dollar quality. I'll back you at and EB because you've always been a stand up guy and like I said before, the design is cute. I'm hoping, cute design or magic deck or poker deck or cadistry deck or whatever you want to call it deck, in the future you'll go back to the more quality playing card manufacturers. Feel is important to us as playing card people and WJPC cards don't feel real good at all, they tend to tear pretty easily too. This is a luxury hobby, we're paying luxury prices for decks and would like at least a quality feel.

Btw, the dog on the spade card is riding in a basket with hearts on it. Cracked me up, great move.

I've heard this a lot on this forum and have tried to listen so using stretch goals to upgrade to printer to EPCC, and to bring the community into supporting. Is there a way to help re-motivate those that maybe immediately dismiss a project due to the printer - to look back and see that someone is listening?

A huge congratulations to the campaign for Zoo52! The cards look adorable and the watercolour work is gorgeous. I'm sure they would sell like hotcakes here in Japan, where cute is supreme.

I actually tried to email you guys a few days back, so do let me know if you're able to talk by email or elsewhere.

I hope the campaign continues to go strong - and well done for already smashing your goal!

JackBrutusPenny wrote:

theCapraAegagrus wrote:Depending on price point, I may back it. I've supported cat decks before with crappy printers.

As good a reason as any to get your hands on a deck! If you haven't yet I'd like to take the chance to introduce you to my cat related/heavily featured deck inspired by Japanese ukiyoe also currently on kickstarter. 12 days left and the campaign helps support abandoned cats and dogs in Japan.

As nice as the actual artwork is for your deck, it doesn't have any color contrast (which is typically important for me), and they're virtually unplayable.

theCapraAegagrus wrote:

JackBrutusPenny wrote:

theCapraAegagrus wrote:Depending on price point, I may back it. I've supported cat decks before with crappy printers.

As good a reason as any to get your hands on a deck! If you haven't yet I'd like to take the chance to introduce you to my cat related/heavily featured deck inspired by Japanese ukiyoe also currently on kickstarter. 12 days left and the campaign helps support abandoned cats and dogs in Japan.

As nice as the actual artwork is for your deck, it doesn't have any color contrast (which is typically important for me), and they're virtually unplayable.

Colour contrast - noted for the next deck incarnation. I understand this deck, though casually playable, sacrifices practicality for the aesthetics of the art!

Got these in the mail a few days ago, wasn't even looking for them quite yet. That's pretty fast fulfillment!

Good deck, and really a good deal at the price.

Outsider wrote:Got these in the mail a few days ago, wasn't even looking for them quite yet. That's pretty fast fulfillment!

Good deck, and really a good deal at the price.

Same, got them yesterday, wasn't expecting them to ship out that quickly. The cards are fine, the design is adorable, but my cat tuck wasn't properly glued. The whole side of the tuck was missing any adhesive to keep it together. Easy fix with some Elmer's though.

I had the same issue with my dog tuck. No evidence that it had ever been glued. Haven't opened the Cat deck yet.

I was pleasantly surprised with the handling of the cards. I was really leery about them being printed in China but they actually feel a lot like USPCC.

I have to pay more attention to the descriptions. I somehow thought that this was a semi-transformation deck. I guess it was the one court where the dog is pulling the diamonds off the clothes line. Totally my own confusion.

Overall I'm very happy with it. Good price and better than expected printing. Glad I pledged for them.

flashcards wrote:I had the same issue with my dog tuck. No evidence that it had ever been glued. Haven't opened the Cat deck yet.

I was pleasantly surprised with the handling of the cards. I was really leery about them being printed in China but they actually feel a lot like USPCC.

I have to pay more attention to the descriptions. I somehow thought that this was a semi-transformation deck. I guess it was the one court where the dog is pulling the diamonds off the clothes line. Totally my own confusion.

Overall I'm very happy with it. Good price and better than expected printing. Glad I pledged for them.

I got these for a dog-loving friend of mine and had the same issue with the tuck. Not cool.

The creator had me send a photo of my tucks and he's sending out free replacements. If you PM him on KS, I'm sure he'll get you corrected tucks. The gluing error is not cool, but he seems eager to make it right.

Yes, a number of the Zoo52 decks have unglued tucks, an absolutely massive stuffup in QA from WJPC considering the work that went into this particular production run from both ends. I made an update on the project about this; simply let me know through KS if you got a dodgy deck and I'll sort it out.

I am still working with WJPC for a resolution to this, but this is likely the proverbial straw landing on the camel of EPC.

I just opened the cat deck and the side flap is about 3/4 glued. What's more curious is how soft the tuck is. Just taking off the cello put a dent in the side of each deck. Somehow, the back of the dog deck on that side now has a big wrinkle in it. I know it didn't come that way and I'm careful about opening decks, as I'm sure you all are, so this was quite a surprise.

Fud, I appreciate the offer but it's not worth your time or cost to replace these for me. The side flaps are easy enough to glue. The dents and creases in the tucks weren't there before I opened them so they are kind of my fault. They are not visible from the front and I'm not a tuckist in any case.

As I said, I'm pleasantly surprised with the feel of the cards though I haven't done anything but fan them (poorly). However, it wouldn't break my heart if you stopped printing with WJPC. I was hesitant about them from the beginning and almost cancelled my pledge because of them. Overall I think that you handled everything within your control very well so I have no complaints about EPC.

Fud wrote:I am still working with WJPC for a resolution to this, but this is likely the proverbial straw landing on the camel of EPC.

Also, thank you for working to rectify this. PM sent via KS.